ocpmachine
09-15 10:43 AM
This thread is getting very interesting with all the logical calculations and predictions, thanks OP.
One aspect that was missed in the discussions so far is, during Aug-Sep'08 many folks with 2005/06 PD's got their GC, USCIS picked these cases on random and not sure how many with 2005/06 PD's were approved but it a sizeable number, so this reduces the pending numbers for 2005/06 PD cases as well. I am predicting by Sep'10 we should see all of 2006 PD's cleared up.
-Cheers
One aspect that was missed in the discussions so far is, during Aug-Sep'08 many folks with 2005/06 PD's got their GC, USCIS picked these cases on random and not sure how many with 2005/06 PD's were approved but it a sizeable number, so this reduces the pending numbers for 2005/06 PD cases as well. I am predicting by Sep'10 we should see all of 2006 PD's cleared up.
-Cheers
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oguinan
02-15 11:48 PM
ouignan,
You can see that the UN panel is aware of the fact that racial discrimination manifests itself in disproportional representation (note the reference to the composition of the Supreme Court). It can be argued that the 7% country limit provides a pretext to discriminate against India/China/Mexico on the basis of ethnic or racial origin, and as such would run afoul of the convention.
I enjoyed that article, it's a great find. To be fair, it does offer both opinion and history. I do agree that the 7% limit is unfair but the answer is to increase the supply of green cards so that all qualified applicants get their green cards. The racial element is something everybody should be aware of. It's important that we all have a good understanding of the history of the immigration laws, in the united states and elsewhere. Perhaps "History of Immigration Laws" would be an interesting thread on it's own. At the very least we should add the wikipedia references that we discussed earlier into the resources section.
You can see that the UN panel is aware of the fact that racial discrimination manifests itself in disproportional representation (note the reference to the composition of the Supreme Court). It can be argued that the 7% country limit provides a pretext to discriminate against India/China/Mexico on the basis of ethnic or racial origin, and as such would run afoul of the convention.
I enjoyed that article, it's a great find. To be fair, it does offer both opinion and history. I do agree that the 7% limit is unfair but the answer is to increase the supply of green cards so that all qualified applicants get their green cards. The racial element is something everybody should be aware of. It's important that we all have a good understanding of the history of the immigration laws, in the united states and elsewhere. Perhaps "History of Immigration Laws" would be an interesting thread on it's own. At the very least we should add the wikipedia references that we discussed earlier into the resources section.
onemoredesi
05-15 08:38 PM
Hello Friends and my fellow GC awaiters..
I have my labor pending for the past 3 yrs (my PD is Aug 2003) and have been waiting for ever. Inspite having a Master's I did filee in EB3 just because I work for a large company which does not allow to file in EB2.
Anyways, I came across a company who said that they have a pre approved labor (late 2002) priority date. Is it wise to go for it or wait for something in EB category to move ahead?. I have at least 1 yr 3 months on H1 and will not have any other options except to stay in the company after 3 months.
Is it worth taking the risk and go with the labor substitution?
The second question/advice I'd like from you is:
If I go back to the same company after 6 months because of some issue with the labor can I still preserve my 2003 PD?
Pls let me know your opinion.
Thx a lot guys.
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies
1MoreDesi !
I have my labor pending for the past 3 yrs (my PD is Aug 2003) and have been waiting for ever. Inspite having a Master's I did filee in EB3 just because I work for a large company which does not allow to file in EB2.
Anyways, I came across a company who said that they have a pre approved labor (late 2002) priority date. Is it wise to go for it or wait for something in EB category to move ahead?. I have at least 1 yr 3 months on H1 and will not have any other options except to stay in the company after 3 months.
Is it worth taking the risk and go with the labor substitution?
The second question/advice I'd like from you is:
If I go back to the same company after 6 months because of some issue with the labor can I still preserve my 2003 PD?
Pls let me know your opinion.
Thx a lot guys.
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies
1MoreDesi !
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hiralal
06-02 10:16 PM
DO i = 1 to Infinity:
discuss /* lawsuits, letter campaign etc etc */.
discuss some more.
pessimists dismiss everything. /* start again */
End.
That's all that we do ...the same points again and again ...members get bored and they leave ..if only we were to start having numerous small campaigns !!! at the very least there would be some enthusiasm ..well maybe one day wishes will come true :rolleyes:
for every good point there are 100 naysayers, cynics and pessimists !!
discuss /* lawsuits, letter campaign etc etc */.
discuss some more.
pessimists dismiss everything. /* start again */
End.
That's all that we do ...the same points again and again ...members get bored and they leave ..if only we were to start having numerous small campaigns !!! at the very least there would be some enthusiasm ..well maybe one day wishes will come true :rolleyes:
for every good point there are 100 naysayers, cynics and pessimists !!
more...
yogi13229
07-08 03:10 PM
I have filled my Green card in Eb3 category. I am planning to now file it in Eb2 Category, but want to retain my Eb3 Priority date (which is 2005) . Please let me know:
1) How does it affect my current Green card process in case of Rejection of New ( Eb2) or Query on it( RFE).
2) If a different employer files my green card in EB2 category, at what stage will I have to join this new employer. I am planning to let my new (future) employer file GC in Eb2 while I continue working for my old employee. I will then join the new employer after getting the green card. Is this possible? I want this EB2 case to have the same priority date as EB3.
3) I Have Already filled 485 in Eb3 category , Do I have to file I485 in Eb2 Again or my Previous Eb3 485 Transfered to this New Eb2 Category
4) If I have to file New I485 in Eb2 in that case what happened to My Eb3 485
Thanks
yogi
1) How does it affect my current Green card process in case of Rejection of New ( Eb2) or Query on it( RFE).
2) If a different employer files my green card in EB2 category, at what stage will I have to join this new employer. I am planning to let my new (future) employer file GC in Eb2 while I continue working for my old employee. I will then join the new employer after getting the green card. Is this possible? I want this EB2 case to have the same priority date as EB3.
3) I Have Already filled 485 in Eb3 category , Do I have to file I485 in Eb2 Again or my Previous Eb3 485 Transfered to this New Eb2 Category
4) If I have to file New I485 in Eb2 in that case what happened to My Eb3 485
Thanks
yogi
Lasantha
12-14 03:45 PM
Good summary but let me also add the observation that eliminating the per country quota alone will not bring the desired benefit unless the following are also implemneted
1) Increase of the total EB quota
2) Exclude dependents from the quota
3) Re-capture unused visas from past years.
To summarize the discussions on this thread:
Yes, it is 7 % for all countries.
Now it is manifestly obvious that the 7 % figure is arbitrary, and not fair. That much we can all agree on.
The real question, as raised in the first post of the thread by soljabhai is:
(A) Is that constitutional?
(B) (And this is the real question): If it is, what should we do about it?
Intelligent questions, both.
The answer to (A) is not clear. We need a competent constitutional expert to opine on the matter.
For (B), (which is what the thread is really all about), there are lively discussions with differing views.
lazycis has presented good evidence that the case is not cut and dried legally. It might be unfair, but those are the laws.
mbartosik, alterego, me and others have argued (from different angles) in terms of pragmatism. (Cost is not worth the benefit)
garybanz, soljabhai, and others have argued that it is worth it (Cost is worth the benefit).
Anyway, agree or disagree, its an interesting thread with interesting posts..
1) Increase of the total EB quota
2) Exclude dependents from the quota
3) Re-capture unused visas from past years.
To summarize the discussions on this thread:
Yes, it is 7 % for all countries.
Now it is manifestly obvious that the 7 % figure is arbitrary, and not fair. That much we can all agree on.
The real question, as raised in the first post of the thread by soljabhai is:
(A) Is that constitutional?
(B) (And this is the real question): If it is, what should we do about it?
Intelligent questions, both.
The answer to (A) is not clear. We need a competent constitutional expert to opine on the matter.
For (B), (which is what the thread is really all about), there are lively discussions with differing views.
lazycis has presented good evidence that the case is not cut and dried legally. It might be unfair, but those are the laws.
mbartosik, alterego, me and others have argued (from different angles) in terms of pragmatism. (Cost is not worth the benefit)
garybanz, soljabhai, and others have argued that it is worth it (Cost is worth the benefit).
Anyway, agree or disagree, its an interesting thread with interesting posts..
more...
dilipcr
06-11 10:08 PM
Dilip,i read your old post from 2003, indeed a roller coaster ride...remember good KARMA, you had tons of it man!!
I am not a strong believer in Karma as Karma is something whose existence is determined based on the aftermath of success we achieve in our trials and tribulations. I hope that you people appreciate my opinion that geniuine people need not worry abt GC timelines. It will happen. I dont believe in the policy of these L1s getting GCs because most of them, if not all, do not fall under the superior skillsets category. In addition, they unabashedly jump the queue in terms of GC, flout rules and end up lowering the wages of the existing people. This was also the case back then in 2001.
Back then there was a misplaced sense of security amongst these people working for these outsourcing companies that lower salaries meant guaranteed job security. Most of them never had the confidence in their own skills to venture out on their own. They preferred the tutelage and security of their firms. Their skillsets were run of the mill and so they continued diluting the IT wages. It is the same scenario repeating today wherein these type of guys are under the L1 visa. An insignificant minority among these may be talented but it is not worth the time spending to identify these cases. In my opinion, there is no need to feel sympathetic towards the people from these companies. I may seem to sound harsh here but if you think through my opinions you would realize that my opinions are in the best interests of preventing wage destruction for those working directly for companies n a H1B.
I am not a strong believer in Karma as Karma is something whose existence is determined based on the aftermath of success we achieve in our trials and tribulations. I hope that you people appreciate my opinion that geniuine people need not worry abt GC timelines. It will happen. I dont believe in the policy of these L1s getting GCs because most of them, if not all, do not fall under the superior skillsets category. In addition, they unabashedly jump the queue in terms of GC, flout rules and end up lowering the wages of the existing people. This was also the case back then in 2001.
Back then there was a misplaced sense of security amongst these people working for these outsourcing companies that lower salaries meant guaranteed job security. Most of them never had the confidence in their own skills to venture out on their own. They preferred the tutelage and security of their firms. Their skillsets were run of the mill and so they continued diluting the IT wages. It is the same scenario repeating today wherein these type of guys are under the L1 visa. An insignificant minority among these may be talented but it is not worth the time spending to identify these cases. In my opinion, there is no need to feel sympathetic towards the people from these companies. I may seem to sound harsh here but if you think through my opinions you would realize that my opinions are in the best interests of preventing wage destruction for those working directly for companies n a H1B.
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PBECVictim
06-27 10:52 AM
If Dept of State finds by mid of the month all(not by country) EB3 or EB2 numbers consumed, then they may come back and say no more acceptance of particular category. But generally they don't want to do that for EB category applications, because it is difficult for them to evaluate, reason is some numbers from Family category will be transfered to EB categories.
It happened for EB2 India, in the month of July 2006 mid. All numbers for EB2 India were utilized before mid of July, but even then they didn't come back in the mid of the month. So they made it "U" in next bulletin.
Don't be panic...........
It happened for EB2 India, in the month of July 2006 mid. All numbers for EB2 India were utilized before mid of July, but even then they didn't come back in the mid of the month. So they made it "U" in next bulletin.
Don't be panic...........
more...
Legal
07-22 09:38 AM
USCIS TRYING ITS BEST, with the available resources, TO KEEP THE EMPLOYMENT BASED CATEGORY IN SHAPE.
BUT THE REASON FOR ALL THIS MESS IS ITS WORKING WITH DECADES OLD IMMIGRATION RULES and WITH a HUGE DEMAND OF EB VISAS FROM A VERY FEW COUNTRIES.
THE MESS IS WITH THE IMMIGRATION RULES, WHICH ARE WRITTEN DECADES BACK (MAY BE AT THAT TIME THE LAW MAKERS MIGHT NOT HAVE ASSUMED THE EB DEMAND WOULD BE FROM A FEW COUNTRIES LIKE INDIA and CHINA), BUT NOT WITH THE USCIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TIME is REACHED FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM.
vdlrao,
I totally agree with this. They have been trying hard to do the right thing WITHIN THE LIMITS OF CURRENT LAWS and be fair as much as possible.
Do you agree with my statement there are 40k numbers available for EB which should be used up before Sep 30th? 20,000 each in August and September. And I bet that's what they are planning to do. I realize this could be wishful thinking . But everything points to that direction. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
BUT THE REASON FOR ALL THIS MESS IS ITS WORKING WITH DECADES OLD IMMIGRATION RULES and WITH a HUGE DEMAND OF EB VISAS FROM A VERY FEW COUNTRIES.
THE MESS IS WITH THE IMMIGRATION RULES, WHICH ARE WRITTEN DECADES BACK (MAY BE AT THAT TIME THE LAW MAKERS MIGHT NOT HAVE ASSUMED THE EB DEMAND WOULD BE FROM A FEW COUNTRIES LIKE INDIA and CHINA), BUT NOT WITH THE USCIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TIME is REACHED FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM.
vdlrao,
I totally agree with this. They have been trying hard to do the right thing WITHIN THE LIMITS OF CURRENT LAWS and be fair as much as possible.
Do you agree with my statement there are 40k numbers available for EB which should be used up before Sep 30th? 20,000 each in August and September. And I bet that's what they are planning to do. I realize this could be wishful thinking . But everything points to that direction. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
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sunny1000
12-13 05:17 PM
This problem has arisen out of a desire for the labor but not wishing to give the immigration benefits due to concerns which are not always convenient or comfortable to state.
If H1b was also a quota system, this would all be a moot discussion. Since it is not, and we have an unlimited L1 program we have this situation.
A few points are truly ridiculous. Anguilla with its 5K citizens has the same quota as India or China? How does that promote diversity. If every Anguillan applied in EB2 their quota would not get filled. Yet India has more diversity of religion, language, caste and virtually anything else you can imagine except perhaps ethnicity. Which brings me to the main point, which is it may be inconvenient, and it may be uncomfortable, but immigration has, does and perhaps for the foreseeable future will have racial undertones.
I guess with Dems in control, that H1 quota could happen soon...:)
If H1b was also a quota system, this would all be a moot discussion. Since it is not, and we have an unlimited L1 program we have this situation.
A few points are truly ridiculous. Anguilla with its 5K citizens has the same quota as India or China? How does that promote diversity. If every Anguillan applied in EB2 their quota would not get filled. Yet India has more diversity of religion, language, caste and virtually anything else you can imagine except perhaps ethnicity. Which brings me to the main point, which is it may be inconvenient, and it may be uncomfortable, but immigration has, does and perhaps for the foreseeable future will have racial undertones.
I guess with Dems in control, that H1 quota could happen soon...:)
more...
akred
02-16 12:10 PM
Fraud and corruption is prevalent everywhere incuding India and a prepondernece of the bodyshops are nothing but a factory of producing overnight "IT Talents". Accept this is as one of the problem of this retrogression.
No one is going to fall for or accept this type of torn shirt, open fly argument. Retrogression is caused by insufficient GC numbers and worsened for some countries due to the country caps. The fact that there is corruption in India or any of the other random reasons you are trotting out in no way mitigates the fact that people are being forced to wait after fulfilling all of the qualifying criteria set forth by the US government.
No one is going to fall for or accept this type of torn shirt, open fly argument. Retrogression is caused by insufficient GC numbers and worsened for some countries due to the country caps. The fact that there is corruption in India or any of the other random reasons you are trotting out in no way mitigates the fact that people are being forced to wait after fulfilling all of the qualifying criteria set forth by the US government.
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gc28262
06-16 04:47 PM
Merit = Achievement
CEOs Without College Degrees (http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/05/0522_no_college_ceos/index.htm)
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/05/0522_no_college_ceos/index.htm
CEOs Without College Degrees (http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/05/0522_no_college_ceos/index.htm)
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/05/0522_no_college_ceos/index.htm
more...
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immigrationvoice1
02-13 12:17 PM
That is absolutely not true. Unused visas from under subscribed countries are made available to over subscribed countries.
And how do you support that argument please ?
And how do you support that argument please ?
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gjoe
02-13 04:38 PM
Why should we give big bucks to big names? Instead we can pay 50% to 75% of that to a bunch of fresh law school grads from Harvard or some other top law school and see what they can do?
This way we would help young talent and also give them a platform to get their name in the front and at the same time we are not under cutting on their fees. Saving money but cutting unnecessary cost is the name of the game.
Any thoughs or counter arguments?
This way we would help young talent and also give them a platform to get their name in the front and at the same time we are not under cutting on their fees. Saving money but cutting unnecessary cost is the name of the game.
Any thoughs or counter arguments?
more...
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sumagiri
07-23 12:42 PM
There are 20 K EB visas left from the regular EB category for this fiscal and there are minimum of 20k FB visas which spill over for EB.
Thus conservative estimate 40k visas are available for use before Sep 30th. Liberal estimate the numbers could be higher.
More likley to happen is most EB-2 upto Dec 2005 getting approved, many in early 2006 getting approved.
Legal,
I hope you are right. But I am not convinced because there was a statement in USCIS testimony that they used up 65% of their target in first 5 months. So even if they used up just 30% in next 5 months, there will be very few Visas left over. If their target did not include the spill overs, then you are right. But in that case, a part of the spill over should also go to EB3. So EB3 should open up again. I am also EB2. So I hope you are right. But as of now, it appears that either there are not many visas left over or it can be that USCIS target was very low.
Thus conservative estimate 40k visas are available for use before Sep 30th. Liberal estimate the numbers could be higher.
More likley to happen is most EB-2 upto Dec 2005 getting approved, many in early 2006 getting approved.
Legal,
I hope you are right. But I am not convinced because there was a statement in USCIS testimony that they used up 65% of their target in first 5 months. So even if they used up just 30% in next 5 months, there will be very few Visas left over. If their target did not include the spill overs, then you are right. But in that case, a part of the spill over should also go to EB3. So EB3 should open up again. I am also EB2. So I hope you are right. But as of now, it appears that either there are not many visas left over or it can be that USCIS target was very low.
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panini
05-11 05:11 PM
It is easy to spit out numbers like this. Do you have independent proof of these? Please don't point us to LTTE run web sites. Provide hard proof if you can.
As for "formerly superior Tamil competitiveness", I am sure what you refer to is, the fact that during the British period, the Tamils were given the lion's share (pardon my pun) of all the civil service and other administrative jobs as part of their divide and Rule policy. When SL gained independence of course, things changed so that formerly discriminated Sinhalese started getting their fair share of thse opportunities. Mind you that Sinhalese are after all 75% of SL. Are you saying it is fair to ask 12% of the population (SL Tamils) to have 50% of all the opportuniies and land and the resources reserved for them???
Whoever is supporting the SL govt. Do you deny these facts. From 1948 various SL govts been using different approaches and policies to discriminate Tamils in SL,Now it is in the name of fight against Terrorism.
Ever since independence in 1948, government policies have systematically violated the social, economic and cultural rights of Tamils: through the disenfranchisement of the Indian Tamils, through state sponsored colonization of the North-East by Sinhalese settlers, frequently accompanied by forceful eviction of Tamils, through a discriminatory language, education and recruitment policy which pursued but one aim: the Sinhalization of the state. Today, more than 90 % of civil servants, and 99 % of the security forces are Sinhalese. The politics of �positive discrimination� of the Sinhalese appears presently to be transformed into one of long-term exclusion of the Tamils because of proven incapacity. For what reasoning other than to eliminate the formerly superior Tamil competitiveness once and for all, while prolonging, even cementing Sinhala domination well into the next generation, can be adduced to explain the surplus of 14 000 Sinhala as against a shortage of 10 000 Tamil medium teachers, the lack of the most elementary school equipment (over 120 000 desks and chairs in the Vanni alone); a teacher pupil ratio of 70 to 1 in Tamil areas as against 22 to 1 for the rest of the country? The results of this outright violation of rights manifest themselves: in the competitive examinations for the Sri Lanka Accountant and the Administrative Service at most two Tamils were selected each year since the early 1990s!
As for "formerly superior Tamil competitiveness", I am sure what you refer to is, the fact that during the British period, the Tamils were given the lion's share (pardon my pun) of all the civil service and other administrative jobs as part of their divide and Rule policy. When SL gained independence of course, things changed so that formerly discriminated Sinhalese started getting their fair share of thse opportunities. Mind you that Sinhalese are after all 75% of SL. Are you saying it is fair to ask 12% of the population (SL Tamils) to have 50% of all the opportuniies and land and the resources reserved for them???
Whoever is supporting the SL govt. Do you deny these facts. From 1948 various SL govts been using different approaches and policies to discriminate Tamils in SL,Now it is in the name of fight against Terrorism.
Ever since independence in 1948, government policies have systematically violated the social, economic and cultural rights of Tamils: through the disenfranchisement of the Indian Tamils, through state sponsored colonization of the North-East by Sinhalese settlers, frequently accompanied by forceful eviction of Tamils, through a discriminatory language, education and recruitment policy which pursued but one aim: the Sinhalization of the state. Today, more than 90 % of civil servants, and 99 % of the security forces are Sinhalese. The politics of �positive discrimination� of the Sinhalese appears presently to be transformed into one of long-term exclusion of the Tamils because of proven incapacity. For what reasoning other than to eliminate the formerly superior Tamil competitiveness once and for all, while prolonging, even cementing Sinhala domination well into the next generation, can be adduced to explain the surplus of 14 000 Sinhala as against a shortage of 10 000 Tamil medium teachers, the lack of the most elementary school equipment (over 120 000 desks and chairs in the Vanni alone); a teacher pupil ratio of 70 to 1 in Tamil areas as against 22 to 1 for the rest of the country? The results of this outright violation of rights manifest themselves: in the competitive examinations for the Sri Lanka Accountant and the Administrative Service at most two Tamils were selected each year since the early 1990s!
more...
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longq
02-13 03:09 PM
They do not have to go to 7% if they don't want to. However; they can't go over it; if there is more demand then supply.
I am not disputing this. Entire discussion here is how to handle if demand is less than supply due to the impose of 7%.
I am not disputing this. Entire discussion here is how to handle if demand is less than supply due to the impose of 7%.
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gjoe
02-13 04:38 PM
Why should we give big bucks to big names? Instead we can pay 50% to 75% of that to a bunch of fresh law school grads from Harvard or some other top law school and see what they can do?
This way we would help young talent and also give them a platform to get their name in the front and at the same time we are not under cutting on their fees. Saving money but cutting unnecessary cost is the name of the game.
Any thoughs or counter arguments?
This way we would help young talent and also give them a platform to get their name in the front and at the same time we are not under cutting on their fees. Saving money but cutting unnecessary cost is the name of the game.
Any thoughs or counter arguments?
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EkAurAaya
07-10 11:41 AM
Dude you just gave me goose bumps! You should forward your heart felt note to media outlets!
I sincerely wish you the best! God Bless! Good luck with everything...
At least you wont have to worry about "visa-status" "legal/illegal" "H1b" "H4" Labor Cert" i140" i485" EAD" AP"... F$#% that! :D
I sincerely wish you the best! God Bless! Good luck with everything...
At least you wont have to worry about "visa-status" "legal/illegal" "H1b" "H4" Labor Cert" i140" i485" EAD" AP"... F$#% that! :D
sankap
07-12 11:14 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/washington/27points.html?ex=1184385600&en=d3301beecf778d15&ei=5070
June 27, 2007
Canada�s Policy on Immigrants Brings Backlog
By CHRISTOPHER MASON and JULIA PRESTON
TORONTO, June 26 � With an advanced degree in business management from a university in India and impeccable English, Salman Kureishy is precisely the type of foreigner that Canada�s merit-based immigration system was designed to attract.
Yet eight years went by from the time Mr. Kureishy passed his first Canadian immigration test until he moved from India to Canada. Then he had to endure nine months of bureaucratic delays before landing a job in his field in March.
Mr. Kureishy�s experience � and that of Canada�s immigration system � offers a cautionary tale for the United States. Mr. Kureishy came to this country under a system Canada pioneered in the 1960s that favors highly skilled foreigners, by assigning points for education and work experience and accepting those who earn high scores.
A similar point system for the United States is proposed in the immigration bill that bounced back to life on Tuesday, when the Senate reversed a previous stand and brought the bill back to the floor. The vote did not guarantee passage of the bill, which calls for the biggest changes in immigration law in more than 20 years.
The point system has helped Canada compete with the United States and other Western powers for highly educated workers, the most coveted immigrants in high-tech and other cutting-edge industries. But in recent years, immigration lawyers and labor market analysts say, the Canadian system has become an immovable beast, with a backlog of more than 800,000 applications and waits of four years or more.
The system�s bias toward the educated has left some industries crying out for skilled blue-collar workers, especially in western Canada where Alberta�s busy oil fields have generated an economic boom. Studies by the Alberta government show the province could be short by as many as 100,000 workers over the next decade.
In response, some Canadian employers are sidestepping the point system and relying instead on a program initiated in 1998 that allows provincial governments to hand-pick some immigrant workers, and on temporary foreign-worker permits.
�The points system is so inflexible,� said Herman Van Reekum, an immigration consultant in Calgary who helps Alberta employers find workers. �We need low-skill workers and trades workers here, and those people have no hope under the points system.�
Canada accepts about 250,000 immigrants each year, more than doubling the per-capita rate of immigration in the United States, census figures from both countries show. Nearly two-thirds of Canada�s population growth comes from immigrants, according to the 2006 census, compared with the United States, where about 43 percent of the population growth comes from immigration. Approximately half of Canada�s immigrants come through the point system.
Under Canada�s system, 67 points on a 100-point test is a passing score. In addition to education and work experience, aspiring immigrants earn high points for their command of languages and for being between 21 and 49 years old. In the United States, the Senate bill would grant higher points for advanced education, English proficiency and skills in technology and other fields that are in demand. Lower points would be given for the family ties that have been the basic stepping stones of the American immigration system for four decades.
Part of the backlog in Canada can be traced to a provision in the Canadian system that allows highly skilled foreigners to apply to immigrate even if they do not have a job offer. Similarly, the Senate bill would not require merit system applicants to have job offers in the United States, although it would grant additional points to those who do.
Without an employment requirement, Canada has been deluged with applications. In testimony in May before an immigration subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives, Howard Greenberg, an immigration lawyer in Toronto, compared the Canadian system to a bathtub with an open faucet and a clogged drain. �It is not surprising that Canada�s bathtub is overflowing,� Mr. Greenberg said.
Since applications are not screened first by employers, the government bears the burden and cost of assessing them. The system is often slow to evaluate the foreign education credentials and work experience of new immigrants and to direct them toward employers who need their skills, said Jeffrey Reitz, professor of immigration studies at the University of Toronto.
The problem has been acute in regulated professions like medicine, where a professional organization, the Medical Council of Canada, reviews foreign credentials of new immigrants. The group has had difficulty assessing how a degree earned in China or India stacks up against a similar degree from a university in Canada or the United States. Frustrated by delays, some doctors and other highly trained immigrants take jobs outside their fields just to make ends meet.
The sheer size of the Canadian point system, the complexity of its rules and its backlogs make it slow to adjust to shifts in the labor market, like the oil boom in Alberta.
�I am a university professor, and I can barely figure out the points system,� said Don J. DeVoretz, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia who studies immigration systems. �Lawyers have books that are three feet thick explaining the system.�
The rush to develop the oil fields in northern Alberta has attracted oil companies from around the world, unleashing a surge of construction. Contractors say that often the only thing holding them back is a shortage of qualified workers.
Scott Burns, president of Burnco Rock Products in Calgary, a construction materials company with about 1,000 employees, said he had been able to meet his labor needs only by using temporary work permits. Mr. Burns hired 39 Filipinos for jobs in his concrete plants and plans to hire more. He said that many of the temporary workers had critically needed skills, but that they had no hope of immigrating permanently under the federal point system.
�The system is very much broken,� Mr. Burns said.
Mr. Kureishy, the immigrant from India, said he was drawn to Canada late in his career by its open society and what appeared to be strong interest in his professional abilities. But even though he waited eight years to immigrate, the equivalent of a doctoral degree in human resources development that he earned from Xavier Labor Relations Institute in India was not evaluated in Canada until he arrived here. During his first six months, Canadian employers had no formal comparison of his credentials to guide them.
Eventually, Mr. Kureishy, 55, found full-time work in his field, as a program manager assisting foreign professionals at Ryerson University in Toronto. �It was a long process, but I look at myself as fairly resilient,� Mr. Kureishy said.
He criticized Canada as providing little support to immigrants after they arrived.
�If you advertised for professors and one comes over and is driving a taxi,� he said, �that�s a problem.�
Christopher Mason reported from Toronto, and Julia Preston from New York.
June 27, 2007
Canada�s Policy on Immigrants Brings Backlog
By CHRISTOPHER MASON and JULIA PRESTON
TORONTO, June 26 � With an advanced degree in business management from a university in India and impeccable English, Salman Kureishy is precisely the type of foreigner that Canada�s merit-based immigration system was designed to attract.
Yet eight years went by from the time Mr. Kureishy passed his first Canadian immigration test until he moved from India to Canada. Then he had to endure nine months of bureaucratic delays before landing a job in his field in March.
Mr. Kureishy�s experience � and that of Canada�s immigration system � offers a cautionary tale for the United States. Mr. Kureishy came to this country under a system Canada pioneered in the 1960s that favors highly skilled foreigners, by assigning points for education and work experience and accepting those who earn high scores.
A similar point system for the United States is proposed in the immigration bill that bounced back to life on Tuesday, when the Senate reversed a previous stand and brought the bill back to the floor. The vote did not guarantee passage of the bill, which calls for the biggest changes in immigration law in more than 20 years.
The point system has helped Canada compete with the United States and other Western powers for highly educated workers, the most coveted immigrants in high-tech and other cutting-edge industries. But in recent years, immigration lawyers and labor market analysts say, the Canadian system has become an immovable beast, with a backlog of more than 800,000 applications and waits of four years or more.
The system�s bias toward the educated has left some industries crying out for skilled blue-collar workers, especially in western Canada where Alberta�s busy oil fields have generated an economic boom. Studies by the Alberta government show the province could be short by as many as 100,000 workers over the next decade.
In response, some Canadian employers are sidestepping the point system and relying instead on a program initiated in 1998 that allows provincial governments to hand-pick some immigrant workers, and on temporary foreign-worker permits.
�The points system is so inflexible,� said Herman Van Reekum, an immigration consultant in Calgary who helps Alberta employers find workers. �We need low-skill workers and trades workers here, and those people have no hope under the points system.�
Canada accepts about 250,000 immigrants each year, more than doubling the per-capita rate of immigration in the United States, census figures from both countries show. Nearly two-thirds of Canada�s population growth comes from immigrants, according to the 2006 census, compared with the United States, where about 43 percent of the population growth comes from immigration. Approximately half of Canada�s immigrants come through the point system.
Under Canada�s system, 67 points on a 100-point test is a passing score. In addition to education and work experience, aspiring immigrants earn high points for their command of languages and for being between 21 and 49 years old. In the United States, the Senate bill would grant higher points for advanced education, English proficiency and skills in technology and other fields that are in demand. Lower points would be given for the family ties that have been the basic stepping stones of the American immigration system for four decades.
Part of the backlog in Canada can be traced to a provision in the Canadian system that allows highly skilled foreigners to apply to immigrate even if they do not have a job offer. Similarly, the Senate bill would not require merit system applicants to have job offers in the United States, although it would grant additional points to those who do.
Without an employment requirement, Canada has been deluged with applications. In testimony in May before an immigration subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives, Howard Greenberg, an immigration lawyer in Toronto, compared the Canadian system to a bathtub with an open faucet and a clogged drain. �It is not surprising that Canada�s bathtub is overflowing,� Mr. Greenberg said.
Since applications are not screened first by employers, the government bears the burden and cost of assessing them. The system is often slow to evaluate the foreign education credentials and work experience of new immigrants and to direct them toward employers who need their skills, said Jeffrey Reitz, professor of immigration studies at the University of Toronto.
The problem has been acute in regulated professions like medicine, where a professional organization, the Medical Council of Canada, reviews foreign credentials of new immigrants. The group has had difficulty assessing how a degree earned in China or India stacks up against a similar degree from a university in Canada or the United States. Frustrated by delays, some doctors and other highly trained immigrants take jobs outside their fields just to make ends meet.
The sheer size of the Canadian point system, the complexity of its rules and its backlogs make it slow to adjust to shifts in the labor market, like the oil boom in Alberta.
�I am a university professor, and I can barely figure out the points system,� said Don J. DeVoretz, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia who studies immigration systems. �Lawyers have books that are three feet thick explaining the system.�
The rush to develop the oil fields in northern Alberta has attracted oil companies from around the world, unleashing a surge of construction. Contractors say that often the only thing holding them back is a shortage of qualified workers.
Scott Burns, president of Burnco Rock Products in Calgary, a construction materials company with about 1,000 employees, said he had been able to meet his labor needs only by using temporary work permits. Mr. Burns hired 39 Filipinos for jobs in his concrete plants and plans to hire more. He said that many of the temporary workers had critically needed skills, but that they had no hope of immigrating permanently under the federal point system.
�The system is very much broken,� Mr. Burns said.
Mr. Kureishy, the immigrant from India, said he was drawn to Canada late in his career by its open society and what appeared to be strong interest in his professional abilities. But even though he waited eight years to immigrate, the equivalent of a doctoral degree in human resources development that he earned from Xavier Labor Relations Institute in India was not evaluated in Canada until he arrived here. During his first six months, Canadian employers had no formal comparison of his credentials to guide them.
Eventually, Mr. Kureishy, 55, found full-time work in his field, as a program manager assisting foreign professionals at Ryerson University in Toronto. �It was a long process, but I look at myself as fairly resilient,� Mr. Kureishy said.
He criticized Canada as providing little support to immigrants after they arrived.
�If you advertised for professors and one comes over and is driving a taxi,� he said, �that�s a problem.�
Christopher Mason reported from Toronto, and Julia Preston from New York.
fall2004us
07-21 01:19 PM
I have had my own experiences with these stalkers, one time I ran into a guy in Walmart and he asked "are you from south India" blah blah....then he asked me "do you have my phone number", I told him "I just met you and how do u expect me to have ur number".....then he asked my #, I gave him my old land line which was disconnected, he called immediately saying that he is giving his # to me, the call did'nt go through, he asked me why? I told him straight on the face to stop this amway business deals with me, he just ignored and rushed to another aisle.
As others said, if some desi smiles and talks to you (which is rare) the first thing you think is that he is from amway......:D
As others said, if some desi smiles and talks to you (which is rare) the first thing you think is that he is from amway......:D